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Post by Chimaera on Jun 8, 2016 16:59:55 GMT
Being new to Pathfinder in general (not just the Ranger class), I've been using a guide to help me craft this character to being a ranged marksman. In the guide, it recommends to go horse for a companion. Allow me to quote the guides first paragraph under its discussion on animal companions, and the reasoning of the horse being a chosen companion for an archer:
My worry is the limitations of such an animal being my companion, if chosen to be by me on reaching and receiving Hunter's bond. It's addressed in the same guide that the horse could fit in some caves regardless, and so forth. But, my worry is this: are ranger animal companions like that of a familiar? Do they have to always be at your side? If they die, does it hurt you in any way? All the levels you put into them, are those lost or do they come back to you to soak into another companion that you've chosen? I have read the ranger section but I might not be getting it or not clicking. The guide is themed on turning the horse into an Abram's tank where I could use it as a mount, and use it to fire my arrows from. I just wanted to get a discussion going so I can better embrace the archer focus of the ranger that I've chosen with Chimaera.
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keran
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Post by keran on Jun 8, 2016 17:25:32 GMT
>This ability functions like the druid animal companion ability (which is part of the Nature Bond class feature), except that the ranger's effective druid level is equal to his ranger level –3.
>If a druid releases her companion from service, she may gain a new one by performing a ceremony requiring 24 uninterrupted hours of prayer in the environment where the new companion typically lives. This ceremony can also replace an animal companion that has perished.
Nothing bad mechanically happens to your character if their companion dies, but your character might grieve over their loss or something? Dunno, the fluff would be up to you. The animal companion they regain after the 24 hours could be the exact same as the one they lost if its built the same way.
No the companion does not have to stay at your character's side all the time, but most, if not all, the choices have fairly low Intelligence, so you probably don't want it just wandering off randomly and getting killed for acting like an animal.
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Post by Gaston on Jun 8, 2016 17:27:02 GMT
In order:
- Animal companions are different to familiars; they gain different bonuses and features, as well as a milestone boost when they reach a certain level.
- They don't always have to be at your side, but it will be difficult to give your animal companion commands unless you're around to command them. That being said, you can leave a companion at a place, then return to collect them.
- It doesn't hurt you if you die, but a dead animal companion is quite clearly a disadvantage.
- When you form a bond with a new animal companion, they begin at your ECL -3 (unless you have boon companion).
Horses have a lot of movement speed and good constitution and mounted archery is cool if you can get it up and running.
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Post by Chimaera on Jun 8, 2016 17:58:18 GMT
So, my worry is at least muted over leaving an animal companion behind. Like I said, say if I make my choice the horse. Not all caves or dungeons he will be able to follow me into. And from what I gleamed from what you both said, if say that horse companion dies, all the feats and stuff attached to him doesn't default back. It dies with him. Now, if he does die, like it was stated, that means I can't go 'well, I want a wolf instead'? I have to commune for twenty-four hours in game and get only another horse? And the guide did mention the mounted archery thing. Here, um, let me quote what it says. It's the full paragraph on it and describing how a horse is the b
I'm honestly just trying to understand the animal companion aspect. This is my first ranger.
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keran
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Post by keran on Jun 8, 2016 18:11:28 GMT
Yes, the choices you've made with that animal companion die with it. You can get a new companion after the 24 hours of prayer, and whether that's a horse, wolf, or whatever have you is up to you. As a level 10 ranger, your new companion would come back at level 7 which would be the same level as your old companion. You could make the same feat, ability increase, and other choices to get, effectively, the same companion once again, or you could make different choices to try out another playstyle with your animal companion.
And yes, mounted archery is quite effective.
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Vee
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Post by Vee on Jun 9, 2016 10:01:06 GMT
I think you're mixing togeather a lot concepts here. So let's go through it 1-1.
Mounted Archery and it's potency: It honestly depends on the adventure, but remember that a horse IS a large creature. Outside of not being able to fit into certain areas, it can't climb up/down stairs/ladders, you can't bring it in-door, some cities won't allow you to ride at faster than gallop, and finally if your mount is caught without you it will die very, very, fast (since it can't make Ride checks to avoid attacks and has pretty poor AC/Saves). That being said, getting a free move action and the ability to kite things is pretty good, but unless you won't to be in charge range you're going to have to sometimes that the -4 penalty for double move. The last thing to consider is Feat costs. Mounted Archery is pretty expensive, even with the house-ruled Feat detax. Mostly because Mounted Combat to begin with is feat heavy, and so is Archery. Combine the two, even with extra feats from being a Ranger expect to see a noticeable trade-off when you're not mounted.
Animal Companion and Progression/Replacement: As others in the thread said losing is no biggie. You get another one in 24 hours, some people like to just get the same companion back and reflavor the ritual as a Resurrection ritual. You DO however lose any tricks you have taught your companion. Finally there's a feat called Boon Companion. If your build relies on your animal companion, I highly recommend that this would be the first feat you take when you get your pet (I would recommend retraining one of your old feats for it). You're giving it 3 levels for 1 feat, which is going to dramatically increase the time it's spending not dead.
As personal advice, (and I may be a bit biased here) I would recommend against taking a mounted archer if you're new to pathfinder. It introduces quite a bit of complexity to the rules, which can make the game feel tedious for you. If you're really want it though, I would recommend taking the Horse Lord archtype (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo---ranger-archetypes/horse-lord).
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Post by Chimaera on Jun 9, 2016 14:35:44 GMT
I think you're mixing togeather a lot concepts here. So let's go through it 1-1. Mounted Archery and it's potency: It honestly depends on the adventure, but remember that a horse IS a large creature. Outside of not being able to fit into certain areas, it can't climb up/down stairs/ladders, you can't bring it in-door, some cities won't allow you to ride at faster than gallop, and finally if your mount is caught without you it will die very, very, fast (since it can't make Ride checks to avoid attacks and has pretty poor AC/Saves). That being said, getting a free move action and the ability to kite things is pretty good, but unless you won't to be in charge range you're going to have to sometimes that the -4 penalty for double move. The last thing to consider is Feat costs. Mounted Archery is pretty expensive, even with the house-ruled Feat detax. Mostly because Mounted Combat to begin with is feat heavy, and so is Archery. Combine the two, even with extra feats from being a Ranger expect to see a noticeable trade-off when you're not mounted. Animal Companion and Progression/Replacement: As others in the thread said losing is no biggie. You get another one in 24 hours, some people like to just get the same companion back and reflavor the ritual as a Resurrection ritual. You DO however lose any tricks you have taught your companion. Finally there's a feat called Boon Companion. If your build relies on your animal companion, I highly recommend that this would be the first feat you take when you get your pet (I would recommend retraining one of your old feats for it). You're giving it 3 levels for 1 feat, which is going to dramatically increase the time it's spending not dead. As personal advice, (and I may be a bit biased here) I would recommend against taking a mounted archer if you're new to pathfinder. It introduces quite a bit of complexity to the rules, which can make the game feel tedious for you. If you're really want it though, I would recommend taking the Horse Lord archtype (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo---ranger-archetypes/horse-lord). , with the guide I'm using, isn't mentioned at all in the process of feat collection. That's why in the quoted text it shows, if a horse is my animal companion, that it really isn't needed and the penalties for it aren't too terrible. The guide itself lists out chosen feats that should be taken, in their opinion, from levels 1 to 15. Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot at Level 1, Deadly Aim at Level 3, Weapon Focus Longbow at Level 5, Improved Precise Shot at Level 5, Manyshot or Combat Reflexes at Level 7, Snap Shot at Level 9, Point Blank Master (Longbow) at Level 10, Improved Snap Shot at 11, Manyshot or Combat Reflexes at 13, and Favored Defense or Clustered Shot at 15 - with a free feat slot at 14. Now, granted, I did say I'm following it loosely and it does mention taking boon companion. But, otherwise, as stated previously, it holds heavy on the fact that mounted archery isn't taken. The size is even addressed when it came to the horse. That a large animal could squeeze to one size smaller but is at a -4. And the ladder problem is still an issue for any medium companion. A issue that would arise with any of the typical, and often recommended animals for a ranger to take. Such as a wolf. It was a problem I was already seeing and that's why I asked if the animal companion suffers the same drawbacks as a familiar would if it dies. And as for the guide I'm using, it's only an advice piece to me. I change a few things to fit my own needs for the character. I don't think that after character creation I'm allowed to take an archtype. But, thank you for the suggestions and the comments. I was just wondering, you know? |
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Vee
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Characters: Akasha
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Post by Vee on Jun 9, 2016 15:53:35 GMT
I think you're mixing togeather a lot concepts here. So let's go through it 1-1. Mounted Archery and it's potency: It honestly depends on the adventure, but remember that a horse IS a large creature. Outside of not being able to fit into certain areas, it can't climb up/down stairs/ladders, you can't bring it in-door, some cities won't allow you to ride at faster than gallop, and finally if your mount is caught without you it will die very, very, fast (since it can't make Ride checks to avoid attacks and has pretty poor AC/Saves). That being said, getting a free move action and the ability to kite things is pretty good, but unless you won't to be in charge range you're going to have to sometimes that the -4 penalty for double move. The last thing to consider is Feat costs. Mounted Archery is pretty expensive, even with the house-ruled Feat detax. Mostly because Mounted Combat to begin with is feat heavy, and so is Archery. Combine the two, even with extra feats from being a Ranger expect to see a noticeable trade-off when you're not mounted. Animal Companion and Progression/Replacement: As others in the thread said losing is no biggie. You get another one in 24 hours, some people like to just get the same companion back and reflavor the ritual as a Resurrection ritual. You DO however lose any tricks you have taught your companion. Finally there's a feat called Boon Companion. If your build relies on your animal companion, I highly recommend that this would be the first feat you take when you get your pet (I would recommend retraining one of your old feats for it). You're giving it 3 levels for 1 feat, which is going to dramatically increase the time it's spending not dead. As personal advice, (and I may be a bit biased here) I would recommend against taking a mounted archer if you're new to pathfinder. It introduces quite a bit of complexity to the rules, which can make the game feel tedious for you. If you're really want it though, I would recommend taking the Horse Lord archtype (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo---ranger-archetypes/horse-lord). , with the guide I'm using, isn't mentioned at all in the process of feat collection. That's why in the quoted text it shows, if a horse is my animal companion, that it really isn't needed and the penalties for it aren't too terrible. The guide itself lists out chosen feats that should be taken, in their opinion, from levels 1 to 15. Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot at Level 1, Deadly Aim at Level 3, Weapon Focus Longbow at Level 5, Improved Precise Shot at Level 5, Manyshot or Combat Reflexes at Level 7, Snap Shot at Level 9, Point Blank Master (Longbow) at Level 10, Improved Snap Shot at 11, Manyshot or Combat Reflexes at 13, and Favored Defense or Clustered Shot at 15 - with a free feat slot at 14. Now, granted, I did say I'm following it loosely and it does mention taking boon companion. But, otherwise, as stated previously, it holds heavy on the fact that mounted archery isn't taken. The size is even addressed when it came to the horse. That a large animal could squeeze to one size smaller but is at a -4. And the ladder problem is still an issue for any medium companion. A issue that would arise with any of the typical, and often recommended animals for a ranger to take. Such as a wolf. It was a problem I was already seeing and that's why I asked if the animal companion suffers the same drawbacks as a familiar would if it dies. And as for the guide I'm using, it's only an advice piece to me. I change a few things to fit my own needs for the character. I don't think that after character creation I'm allowed to take an archtype. But, thank you for the suggestions and the comments. I was just wondering, you know? You can retrain archtypes, at the cost of 5 days per class feature replaced. Since you're level 2, you should have no class features from Horse Lord and so retraining into Horse Lord should be instant. As for the feats list, that looks like a standard archer feat list, not a mounted archer feat list. If you try doing mounted archery with that feat array you're going to have a really bad time. At the very least, you take mounted combat so that your mount doesn't get auto hit every time something looks at it (horses have a base AC of 11). I honestly wouldn't rely too much on guides since most of them are proven useless by the various house rules, since you get Point Blank (as a pre-req, and you don't want to be in 30ft of enemies to begin with so I would avoid taking this) and Deadly Aim for free. Squeezing-wise, it can't squeeze through small areas where as the rest of the party and medium companions could. As for ladders: Your fighter/barbarian/high str party member/or people with climb-speeds can pick up the wolf/raptor/lighter animal and carry them down a ladder. A horse will certainty put them way over max capacity. Oh lastly, the penalty for losing a familiar is far higher than an animal companion. Replacing an animal companion takes 24 hours, replacing a familiar takes 24 hours + crap-ton gold. |
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Post by Chimaera on Jun 10, 2016 17:32:30 GMT
You can retrain archtypes, at the cost of 5 days per class feature replaced. Since you're level 2, you should have no class features from Horse Lord and so retraining into Horse Lord should be instant. As for the feats list, that looks like a standard archer feat list, not a mounted archer feat list. If you try doing mounted archery with that feat array you're going to have a really bad time. At the very least, you take mounted combat so that your mount doesn't get auto hit every time something looks at it (horses have a base AC of 11). I honestly wouldn't rely too much on guides since most of them are proven useless by the various house rules, since you get Point Blank (as a pre-req, and you don't want to be in 30ft of enemies to begin with so I would avoid taking this) and Deadly Aim for free. Squeezing-wise, it can't squeeze through small areas where as the rest of the party and medium companions could. As for ladders: Your fighter/barbarian/high str party member/or people with climb-speeds can pick up the wolf/raptor/lighter animal and carry them down a ladder. A horse will certainty put them way over max capacity. Oh lastly, the penalty for losing a familiar is far higher than an animal companion. Replacing an animal companion takes 24 hours, replacing a familiar takes 24 hours + crap-ton gold.
I looked into the possibility of an archetype. I want to play one, but being a new player it all seems to add a new level of understanding that I have to comprehend on top of the base class. I know from a mechanics stand point that it simply replaces some class features with features presented by the archetype. It just translates, to me, as a whole other class itself. Which I know it technically does. I just want to learn the base class first, unless I feel comfortable with it. So, basically the archetypes are an area that I feel uncomfortable with touching at this moment in time.
The guide shows a step-by-step process on how to extend and raise the horse into effectively an Abram's tank companion. But, I'm not trying to make a mounted archery character given that I actually find them boring. I am pretty much attempting to simply find the best companion for Chimaera that will feed into survivability for both him and his companion. As for the guide, I'm not relying on it too much; I stated I am using it as a guideline to help teach me the class while I wander along. Point Blank Shot, and the combination of all the other feats that it does suggest makes me into an adaptable archer. From what I've read, and through my own research, it will allow me to fire my bow as an Attack of Opportunity. It allows me to fire in melee, and allows me to get out of there and fire at range to. I don't want to be the archer type that is stuck in melee, unable to do anything about it but get hit. Which is why I like the guide.
The guide covers that. It says in all honesty, most dungeons and halls that GMs run are able to fit a party. It's a large creature and can squeeze to a medium with a -4 penalty. But, yes, there is the issue with ladders and such. While a high strength character could lift the animal that isn't a horse. It was just a discussion on if, in the long run, while a wolf / small cat is a great companion for a Ranger, with the feats and way the guide presents it, would a horse be a better companion for the campaign as a whole.
See, that's a good thing and one of the things I was worried about. I don't know if it's the same for druids, but I was literally worried that it would be a pain in the coin purse for a Ranger to replace theirs like it was for a wizard..
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Post by killashandra on Jun 12, 2016 14:42:01 GMT
Its been awhile since i played a ranger and the last time i played an archer type is did pure fighter because they are a little better at it because of the number of feats but why not try to help. mounted archery is always good, though you don't get that +1 to hit like if you did melee on a horse from hight, the horses speed lets you move around alot more and even get a few more attacks in [ later game its pointless though because the horse can't hit things beyond cr5 or so] now about your animal bond. there is a feat that takes away your -3 to your level called boon compaion. Its a good feat if your worried about power, you could also think about taking the alt option. Instead of taking animal bond you could take the party bond, its gives the other players some of your bonuses and such so its not a bad option. Now Vee makes a good point, mounts are large size since your mediem sized. you can't take them into alot of places Unless you take a feat called undersized mount, though this feat has been used as a joke by many, it does let a human druid ride their wolf as a mount. Now lets talk about feats there are a few things you could do with that i will give you two exp. feat guid lines the frist will be mounted combat the secound will be a more genirel thing. - lvl 1 feat : Precise Shot [perhaps the most important feat one could have because of melee party members]
- Race feat : Mounted Combat [ ithis helps your horse from death so its a good thing to have]
- combat style : Rapid Shot [ more attacks more damge, the faster they fall]
- class bonus feat : endurance
- lvl 3 feat : Mounted Archery [ bare in mind firing a bow on a horse and rapid shotting gives you a total of -4 to your attacks]
- lvl 5 feat : Boon Companion [ taking a swing in the dark that your animal compaion is your mount?]
- combat style : Point Blank Master [ no one ever wants those AOP on them, and since this is a combat style you do not need any prereqs]
- lvl 7 feat : Clustered Shots [ taking a shot in the dark that point blank shot was removed from all prereqs]
- lvl 9 feat : Many shot [ again if point blank is not needed then here you go, free extra attack no down side]
- combat style : Improved Precise Shot [ because you always shoot in to combat and have to avoid allies]
- lvl 11 feat : skill focus ride [ gives +6 to ride and we are in high game now you need that +6 for mounted combat]
- lvl 13 feat : Improved Critical [ i got nothing ]
- combat style : shot on the run [ near the end folks ]
- lvl 15 feat : far shot
- lvl 17 feat : Hammer the gap [ it get confusing but its a good feat]
- combat style : parting shot
- lvl 19 feat : trick riding [ your 19th lvl why even make checks anymore]
Now a little differant then your guild but its along the same lines. make lots of attacks do the damage and win the day, there are not manything you would need to worry about really. snap shot while mounted is not bad but you need the full tree its better to focus else were for that. I my self never do mounted combat because i can't use windstance with it because rules as writen but hey thats me. |
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